• Skiluros@sh.itjust.works
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    2 months ago

    And yet the Europeans are too cowardly to launch sabotage programs against the russians without US backing.

    That being said, respect to Poland and the Baltic nations for taking a sober understanding of what the russians are like.

    Merkel and Schroeder are some of the biggest enabler of russian genocidal imperialism in recent years.

    • einkorn@feddit.org
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      2 months ago

      I don’t think we should fight fire with fire. IMHO the way forward is complete political and economical isolation and containment of Russia.

      Step one is sanctioning any form of business with Russia and pressure neutral states via secondary sanctions to do the same. Yes, this means breaking up BRICS. Revoke any visas not related to diplomatic missions to make sure even the average citizen understands they are not welcome with this behaviour of their state. Side note: This does not mean turning away people seeking political asylum. As expansion of both earlier points expand seizure of assets of influencal Russian figures.

      Next either finally give Ukraine what they need to take back their internationally recognized territory or directly intervene with troops. Push the Russians out of Ukraine, draw a big red line on the border and add some “Stay out” signs for good measure.

      Thirdly drastically increase support for countries such as Moldova and Georgia which are under heavy pressure from Russian interference and pave the way towards EU membership if they so desire. Yes, this will be twisted into another “Russia is getting surrended” spin and guess what it is true: Russia is getting surrounded by people who are fed up with their bullshit.

      Removal of sanctions gets tied to multiple factors. I.e. reparations to Ukraine and removal of senior political leadership including and foremost Putin from office.

      • Skiluros@sh.itjust.works
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        2 months ago

        I agree with you on all the points that you mentioned (with the exception of “people seeking political asylum”, with some qualifiers), however, I think you misunderstand the mentality of the overwhelming majority of russians who support genocidal imperialism.

        Remember that when WW2 began, the russians collaborated with the Nazis to split up Europe. To this day, even allegedly liberal russians (who publicly oppose the full scale invasion) don’t really recognize this. They still think that people believe their victim-hood narratives and don’t see them for who they really are. This is a key point in understanding russian mentality and finding effective solutions to dealing with them.

        These measures you describe are fundamentally carrots. There is nothing in what you’re saying that would affect the calculus of any russian. From the poorer ones in the provinces, to the rich professionals in Moscow to the leadership and oligarchs. The “costs” inherent to your proposals do not represent a risk of loss to change their behaviour.

        You mention fighting fire with fire. I am not calling for a pointless suicide march. I am calling for a sober approach to truly raising the costs for all russians.

        The first point is recognizing that russia is a continental empire that is currently occupying many independent nation and I am not about Ukraine, Moldova and Georgia. The list is much longer.

        You need the strike the underbelly of the their colonial empire. Provide freedom fighters in countries like Chechnya with monetary and financial support, so the population at large feels that they have a chance to get rid of the russians. Provide them with weapons (at least manpads) so they can take down russian planes. Intel so they can utilize senior collaborators like Kadyrov.

        It’s not only about Chechnya and Dagestan, but Buryatyi, Komi Republic, Yukutia…

        Utilize the children of senior leadership and oligarchs when they are on vacation in Dubai or the Maldives.

        Provide financial support for developing the language and culture of occupied peoples. Show them that they have a chance.

        I strongly disagree with providing “political asylum” to ethnic russians (with some exceptions for individuals truly opposed to imperialism).

        Look at Vladimir Kara-Murza, the darling of the west, who was freed in a prison exchange.

        Let’s see, what does he think about russian imperialism:

        “I spoke with a colleague who works extensively with prisoners of war on both sides. So she had spoken a lot with Ukrainian prisoners of war who had been released from Russia, and with Russian prisoners of war who are still in Ukraine. And she told me there’s another reason why Russian Defense Ministry recruits so many representatives of these national minorities — because, allegedly, they say it’s psychologically really difficult for Russians to kill Ukrainians. Because it is… Because we are the same… We are the same, these are very closely related peoples, as everyone knows. We have almost the same language, the same religion, centuries and centuries of shared history… But if it’s someone who comes from another culture, allegedly, it’s easier. That’s what this colleague told me yesterday. I had never thought of it that way. For me, it was mostly about economic reasons, but since she told me that yesterday, I’ve started thinking about that too.”

        Same fucking bullshit about “same people” and some racism on top.

        And this is Vladimir Kara-Murza, can you imagine what goes through the head of the average russian?

    • 20cello@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      Reacting to those 5yo provocative actions may lead to a war that no European wants. Not sure it’s just cowardice though, economical interests might have a role in the decision-making process.

      • Skiluros@sh.itjust.works
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        2 months ago

        And appeasing them has not led to war?

        If they make small incursions into the Baltic nations, would you also support appeasement and enabling such actions?

        The reason I ask is that I have close friends living in the central EU and they’ve definitely mentioned the presence of an attitude of cowardice among certain people “let them have the Baltics, they probably won’t get to us”.

        What are those economic interests? What is the number? What is it as a percentage of annual EU GDP?

        • 20cello@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          I’m not supporting anyone, I don’t know what’s the best way to deal with Russia, what i know is that if any European country decides to retaliate, that would be enough material for russian propaganda to legitimate further acts of war. But I may be wrong :)

          • Skiluros@sh.itjust.works
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            2 months ago

            That’s fair.

            enough material for russian propaganda to legitimate further acts of war.

            You should watch some russian propaganda. They already show “news” pieces about how their nukes can reach London and other European cities. That ship has sailed.